The Newsday TV Book Collection Sub-Archiving, Section B.

Yesterday, I published a post about my collection of Newsday TV Books from back in the day. I wanted to add links to all the posts I've written detailing issues of the early 70's (sometimes weekly, sometimes by month), but since I need that post to be concise for easy reference, I'm putting all the links in this post instead. This will also help me quickly see what I've neglected so far. For instance, I just noticed I completely skipped May 1974. What's up with that? (And there’s a Peter Sellers cover in there! He and Glen Campbell are dressed like Scots! I gotta get working on that one!) [Note: Here, I done it. --Ed.]

I'm including the later issues that I already linked in the previous post, just so I can add what's on the covers and maybe some pertinent details (ads that may interest Long Islanders, holidays, notable Gary Viskupic art or reviewer John Cashman info, etc.). Pretty much all entries include the cover, the story that goes with the cover (unless it's super boring) and the TV Line Q&A column by Carol Burton Terry (the Google of its day, where the questions are sometimes more fascinating than the answers).

By the way, I’m just looking at this post again after working on it for a few days and then leaving it for a day. Clearly, the B in “Section B” stands for Bonkers.

NOTE: Twenty issues (1977-'79) added, May 2023
             One added ('78), July 2024

1972
Apr 9-15 Jane Fonda (premiere issue)
Apr 16-22 Mary Tyler Moore
Apr 23-29 The Partridge Family, Shirley Jones, David Cassidy
Apr 30-May 6 "The Mod Squad," Peggy Lipton, Clarence Williams III, Michael Cole
May 7-13 "London Bridge Special," Tom Jones, Jennifer O'Neill
May 14-20 Johnny Carson, Emmys (Emmy ballot)
May 21-27 "The Eagle and the Hawk," Joanne Woodward and daughter Nell Newman
May 28-Jun 3 "Sanford and Son," Redd Foxx, Demond Wilson
Jun 4-10 Don Rickles
Jun 11-17 Cher
Jun 18-24 Richard Castellano, "The Super"
Jun 25-Jul 1 Ruth Buzzi as Gladys Ormphby (TV Line only)
Jul 2-8 Jack Lord
Jul 9-15 Walter Cronkite, Viskupic art (Democratic Convention)
Jul 16-22 "The Ken Berry Wow Show," Ken Berry, Cheryl Ladd
Jul 23-29 All-Star Game, Sudduth art
Jul 30-Aug 5 Lucie Arnaz
Aug 6-12 Russian "War & Peace"
Aug 13-19 Flip Wilson as Geraldine
Aug 20-26 Olympics (Republican Convention, Viskupic art)
Aug 27-Sep 2 Sandy Duncan (Olympics)
Sep 3-9 Fall premieres, Sudduth cover (new shows and schedules, film processing mailer)
~missing issue~
Sep 17-23 Sebastian Cabot, "Ghost Story"
Sep 24-30 Yul Brynner
Oct 1-7 Angel Tompkins
Oct 8-14 "Alias Smith and Jones," Roger Davis, Ben Murphy
Oct 15-21 Shelley Fabares
Oct 22-28 "Of Thee I Sing," Carroll O'Connor, Michele Lee
Oct 29-Nov 4 Linus, Peanuts election special
Nov 5-11 Alastair Cooke (election coverage, Hicks Christmas ad)
Nov 12-18 "The Hands of Cormac Joyce," Colleen Dewhurst
Nov 19-25 Thanksgiving, Bob Newman art (upcoming holiday specials article, full Thx/F/Sa listings)
Nov 26-Dec 2 "Bridget Loves Bernie," Meredith Baxter, David Birney (Christmas ads, incl Elwood Nursery's Storybook Caverns)
Dec 3-9 "The Paul Lynde Show," Lynde, Elizabeth Allen ("phantom reviewer" John Cashman in TV Line, Christmas ads)
Dec 10-16 Carol Burnett, "Once Upon a Mattress"
Dec 17-23 "The Woman I Love," Faye Dunaway, Richard Chamberlain (Christmas ads, shows)
Dec 24-30 Christmas cookie (celebrity greetings, Xmas Eve and Day listings)
Dec 31-Jan 6 Guy Lombardo, New Year's Eve

1973
January Jack Paar, China Viskupic art, "A Touch of Grace" (Shirley Booth, J. Pat O'Malley), "Much Ado About Nothing" (Keystone Kops?)
February "You're a Good Man Charlie Brown" (Ruby Persson, Mark Montgomery), "Here We Go Again" (Larry Hagman, Diane Baker, Nita Talbot), Bobby Darin (as himself and Groucho), Diahann Carroll & Harold Arlen
March Kirk Douglas as Mr. Hyde, Marlo Thomas special (Marlo, Joe Bologna, Art Garfunkel, Gene Wilder), Adrienne Barbeau, Mitzi Gaynor (Tonys, Oscars, Cashman reference 3/25)
April "Gunsmoke" cast, Kung Fu Viskupic art, "Room 222" (Lloyd Haynes, Michael Constantine), "A Man Without a Country" (Cliff Robertson) (Easter, Hicks ad)
May "Dean Martin Show" (Dean, Nipsey Russell, Dom DeLuise), "Women of the Year" Tony Gentile art, Emmys, Brenda Dickson
June Peter Ustinov (illustration), Pamela Shoop, Don Galloway, Jack Burns & Avery Schreiber
July Bob Hope Viskupic art, "The New Dick Van Dyke Show" (Dick, Hope Lange), children's TV, "60 Minutes" (Morley Safer, Mike Wallace), Georgia Engel
August Jonathan Winters, Chad Everett, Wolfman Jack and Penny Lane, TV nostalgia
September Fall preview (with first mention of WSNL, debuting in November), Diana Rigg, Tony Musante, "Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice" (Anne Archer, Anita Gillette, Robert Urich, David Spielberg), "Roll Out!" (Stu Gilliam, Hilly Hicks)
October Jack Palance as Dracula, "Girl with Something Extra" (Sally Field, John Davidson), Telly Savalas (cover only, see issue below)
October 21-27 (Telly Savalas, Hicks Halloween ad)
October 28-November 1 (date mistake on cover--off by two days! Barbra Streisand)
November and December, plus January '74 (mostly just covers at the moment)

Nov 4-10 “The Men Who Made the Movies”

Nov 11-17 Valerie Harper (Hicks Nurseries Christmas ad)

Nov 18-24 Snoopy and Woodstock as pilgrims (Thanksgiving, Friday, Saturday schedules)
Nov 25-Dec 1 Viskupic art of Michael Sarrazin as the Monster in "Frankenstein: The True Story"(Christmas stuff)
Dec 2-8 Karl Malden (Primal Man, Christmas ads and shows, crossword)
Dec 9-15 World at War (Viskupic cover, Hicks Nursery Christmas ad)
Dec 24, 25 (just Christmas Eve and Day listings)

1974
February "Dirty Sally" (Jeanette Nolan, Dack Rambo), Paul Winfield as Roy Campanella, Bob Newman country music art
March John Denver, Laurence Olivier as Shylock, Alan Alda, Tony Gentile art for "Crown Matrimony" (Easter Hicks ad)
April Sandy Duncan with Disney characters, "Story of Jacob and Joseph" (Colleen Dewhurst, Keith Michell), Ben Gazzara (Easter, Academy Awards)
May 5-11 Peter Sellers and Glen Campbell
May 19-25 William Conrad
May 26-Jun 1 Johnny Carson, Emmys
June "ComedyWorld" (Barbara Feldon, Nipsey Russell), "Judgment: The Court Martial of the Tiger of Malaya, General Yamashita" (John Fujioka), "Primal Man," Lee Meriwether (Jun 23-29)
July "Ironside" cast (June 30-July 6), Mac Davis, "Good Times" (John Amos, Esther Rolle), Ron Howard, Mary Tyler Moore
August "All in the Family" (Carroll O'Connor, Jean Stapleton), "Odd Couple" (Tony Randall, Jack Klugman), "The Rookies" cast, Hal Holbrook as "Sandburg's Lincoln"
Sep 1-7 Viskupic art, fall preview issue (new shows and schedules, Labor Day)
Sep 8-14 "Paper Moon," Jodie Foster, Christopher Connolly (ABC fall premiere ads)
Sep 15-21 "Born Free," Diana Muldaur, Gary Collins (fall network ads, full Saturday)
Sep 22-28 Darren McGavin as "Kolchak" (fall network ads)
Sep 29-Oct 5 Angie Dickinson (full Saturday)
Oct 6-12 Michael Killelea art of Bing Crosby, Bob Hope (crossword, Hicks Halloween, WSNL ads)
Oct 13-19 Flip Wilson (Columbus Day ads, Hicks Halloween ad)
Oct 20-26 "Planet of the Apes" series (Roddy MacDowell story, Hicks halloween ad)
Oct 27-Nov 2 Valerie Harper (Rhoda's wedding, Halloween listings)
Nov 3-9 Barry Newman as "Petrocelli" (Election coverage)
Nov 5 (Tuesday listings, Election Day)
Nov 10-16 Bob Newman art of Johnny Cash ("The Godfather," Hicks Christmas ad)
Nov 17-23 Michael York, Margaret Leighton in "Great Expectations" (Viskupic, Hicks Christmas ad)
Nov 24-30 Anne Bancroft, "Annie and the Hoods" (Thanksgiving listings, Christmas ads, WSNL ad)
Dec 1-7 "Red Badge of Courage" (Christmas ads, incl. Hicks)
Dec 8-14 Faye Dunaway, "After the Fall" (Christmas ads, John Cashman mention in TV Line)
Dec 24, 25 Christmas (celebrity greetings, full holiday listings)

1975
Jan 5-11 Newman art, "Count of Monte Cristo" (full Saturday)
Jan 12-18 "The Smothers Brothers show," Tom Smothers, Dick Smothers (full Friday listings, crossword, Harrow's ad)
Jan 18 (just Saturday's listings)
Jan 19-25 Robert Blake, "Baretta"
Jan 26-Feb 1 Cher
Feb 2-8 "All Creatures Great and Small," Anthony Hopkins, Simon Ward
Feb 9-15 Charles Durning, Maureen Stapleton, "Queen of the Stardust Ballroom" (classic Viskupic, Slugger Ryan, Quick Guide)
Feb 16-22 "Happy Days" cast
Feb 23-Mar 1 "In This House of Brede" Diana Rigg

1976
Feb 8-14 Jack Palance, "Bronk" (entire issue!)

1977
Jan 30-Feb 5 Evel Knievel, "Death Defiers"
Feb-13-19 "What's Happening!" cast
Mar 6-12 "A Circle of Children," Jane Alexander
Mar 27-April 2 49th Academy Awards (Hicks, other Easter ads)
May 22-28 Lee Grant interviews Princess Grace of Monaco
June 12-18 Shields and Yarnell NEW 5/23
Jul 17-23 Warren Clarke, "Quasimodo" NEW 5/23
Jul 31-Aug 6 Jane Pauley
Aug 28-Sep 3 original cast of "On Our Own" (before some were fired)
Sep 25-Oct 1 "Kill Me If You Can," Alan Alda, Talia Shire
Oct 16-22 Ed Asner NEW 5/23
Oct 23-29 Bob Hope NEW 5/23
Nov 13-19 Carroll O'Connor, "The Last Hurrah" NEW 5/23
Nov 27-Dec 3 "The Hobbit"
Dec 4-10 National Geographic "Yukon Passage"
Dec 11-17 "It Happened One  Christmas," Marlo Thomas
Dec 18-24 "Wilma," Cicely Tyson, Shirley Jo Finney
Dec 25-31 Elliot from "Pete's Dragon" and other Disney characters (celebrity greetings)

1978
Feb 5-11 "Anna Karenina," Nicola Pagett (I haven't done the issue, but since it coincided with the blizzard of '78, a few pages can be found in my post commemorating that event)
Feb 19-25 Barry Manilow NEW 5/23
Mar 12-18 Demond Wilson NEW 5/23
Apr 9-15 "America 2-Night," Martin Mull, Fred Willard
Apr 23-29 "Project U.F.O.," William Jordan, Caskey Swaim
May (covers and TV Lines of the following 3 issues)
May 14-20 Andrew Stevens "The Bastard" NEW 5/23
May 21-27 James Coburn NEW 5/23
May 28-Jun 3 Tammy Grimes, Donald Moffat "Tartuffe" NEW 5/23
Jun 11-17 Three's Company cast
Jun 18-24 Billy Dee Williams NEW 5/23
Jun 25-Jul 1 "The Last Tenant," Tony Lo Bianco, Lee Strasberg
Jul 30-Aug 5 Kristy McNichol
Aug 6-12 Dan Rather, Morley Safer, Mike Wallace, "60 Minutes" NEW 5/23
Sep 10-16 (Fall preview) NEW 7/24
Sep 17-23 "Battlestar Galactica," leads reflected on Cylon helmets (Isaac Asimov article on bad sci-fi)
Nov 5-11 Judd Hirsch (Election coverage, Cable TV Highlights, crossword)

Nov 19-25 part 1: just the cover (The Immigrants with Aimee Eccles), a few other scans
Nov 19-25 part 2: Thanksgiving, Friday and Saturday schedules
Nov 26-Dec 2 "Mork and Mindy," Robin Williams, Pam Dawber (double)
Dec 3-9 "Mourning Becomes Electra," Joan Hackett
Dec 17-23 "The Winds of Kitty Hawk," Michael Moriarty, David Huffman

1979
Jan 14-20 "Edward the King," Timothy West, Helen Ryan NEW 5/23
Jan 28-Feb 3 Katherine Hepburn NEW 5/23
Feb 11-17 "Elvis!," Kurt Russell
Feb 18-24 Richard Thomas, Fay Hauser, Henry Fonda, "Roots: The Next Generation" NEW 5/23
Mar 18-24 "Dukes of Hazzard" cast (Viskupic King Kong)
Mar 25-31 Rex Smith, Denise Miller NEW 5/23
Apr 29-May 5 Robert Duvall, "Ike" (Record World ad, full Saturday, Trivia, Cable TV Highlights)
May 6-12 Doug McClure, Don Johnson, Andrew Stevens NEW 5/23
May 27-Jun 2 LeVar Burton "Dummy" NEW 5/23
Jun 3-9 Liv Ullman, Tonys NEW 5/23
Jun 10-16 "WKRP," Howard Hesseman, Jan Smithers, Loni Anderson (Trivia, Cable TV Highlights)
Jun 17-23 "Love Boat" cast
Jun 24-30 "Diff'rent Strokes" cast (double)
Jul 1-7 Sandy Hill, David Hartman, "Good Morning America" NEW 5/23
Oct 7-13 Gil Gerard, "Buck Rogers," with Twiki (Hicks Halloween ad, Vampire ad)
Dec 30-Jan 5, '80 "New Year's Rockin' Eve 1980," Dick Clark

1980
Feb 24-Mar 1 "Charlie's Angels," Jaclyn Smith, Cheryl Ladd, Shelley Hack
Jul 13-19 John Kier art of Walter Cronkite, Democratic Convention
Aug 10-16, "Dallas," Linda Gray, Larry Hagman
Aug 17-23 "Three's Company" cast
Aug 24-30 "Dukes of Hazzard" cast
Dec 21-27 Christmas issue, Disney cover (Just the celebrity season's greetings) (double)

1981
May 24-30 "Greatest American Hero," William Katt
May 31-Jun 6 "The Girls in their Summer Dresses," Jeff Bridges, Carol Kane
Jul 26-Aug 1 "Facts of Life" cast (random stuff)
Aug 23-29 "Too Close for Comfort" cast
Sep 13-19 Fall Preview issue, Bernie Cootner art of older stars (new shows and schedules)
Dec 20-26 Christmas issue, Disney cover (celeb greetings)

1982
Jun 27-Jul 3 "Universe," Walter Cronkite
Dec 12-18 Sally Struthers, "Gloria"

1983
Jan 23-29 "Malibu," James Coburn, Kim Novak
Jan 30-Feb 5 Super Bowl XVII
Feb 6-12 Viskupic "Winds of War" art (Audio Video Update section, ads)
Feb 27-Mar 5 "Goodbye, Farewell and Amen," scene with "M*A*S*H" cast
Mar 6-12 "Ellington--The Music Lives On," Cicely Tyson, Mercer Ellington
Mar 13-19 "Jukebox Saturday Night," Eddie Albert, Betty Hutton (special dining/entertainment section, Hicks Easter ad)
Apr 10-16 Academy Awards, art by Cootner (Oscar ballot)
Apr  24-30 "Blood Feud," Robert Blake as Jimmy Hoffa
May 15-21 "Sons and Lovers," Tom Bell, Eileen Atkins, Karl Johnson
May 22-28 "Parade of Stars," cover art by Cootner, Vaudeville stars
Jul 24-30 "The Hamptons," Craig Sheffer, Holly Roberts
Jul 31-Aug 6 "Reggie," Richard Mulligan, Lisa Freeman
Oct 30-Nov 5 "Sadat," Lou Gossett Jr.
Nov 6-12 "Princess Daisy,' Merete Van Kamp
Nov 13-19 (random stuff incl. holiday ads, Hicks, no cover)
Nov 27-Dec 3 "The Gambler--The Adventure Continues," Kenny Rogers, Linda Evans, Bruce Boxleitner
Dec 24-30 Christmas issue, Disney cover
Dec 24, 25 (just Christmas Eve and Day listings, some celebrity greetings)

1984
Mar 25-31 "Terrible Joe Moran," Art Carney, James Cagney (Hicks Easter ad)
May 6-12 "The Last Days of Pompeii," Duncan Regehr
May 13-19 "The Dollmaker," Jane Fonda, Nikki Creswell
Dec 23-29 Christmas issue, Disney cover (celeb greetings)

1985
Dec 22-28 Christmas issue, Disney cover (different layout, no celeb greetings! Boo!)

Let me know if there's anything you're desperate to see in this collection, I'll try to work on it...

The Newsday TV Book Collection Sub-Archiving.

That's a fancy way of saying I added a more comprehensive list of my ol' Newsday TV Books to my "archive" post. I have a hard copy, of course--we mental patients love a paper trail--but I wanted the list on here so I could refer to it more easily (like during those rare occasions when I'm not sequestered in my Nerd Room, on my phone scouring eBay for new acquisitions).

Once I decided to add the list, I realized that I could include links to my write-ups of individual issues. This indexing doesn't work for the early years of my collection because I didn't list those by issue. Maybe I'll remedy this at some point, but holy smokes that's a whole 'nother undertaking, as most of the issues featured in posts on this blog are from those years. In case you haven't noticed (and you haven't), there's a LOT. [Okay, it's done! Check out all links to individual issue posts RIGHT HERE!!!]

1972: Begins with the issue for 4/9-15 (which is the first one--and I have two copies!) and runs the rest of the year, lacking only Sep 10-16, with nine doubles.
1973: Entire year, missing only Dec 16-22 (of COURSE it had to be an almost-Christmas issue!), eight doubles.
1974: Five shy of the entire year: I need Jan 27-Feb 2; Feb 10-16; Apr 14-20; Apr 21-27; and May 12-18.
1975: I just have January and February, the last issue ending March 1st.

[From here on out it's easier to list what I have, not what I need.
I had highlighted the dozen or so instances of consecutive issue runs, but I found it visually chaotic so it got kiboshed. I stuck in arrows instead.]

1976: Just one stinking issue: Feb 8-14.
1977: I have thirteen issues: Jan 30-Feb 5; Feb 13-19; Mar 6-12; Mar 27-Apr 2; May 22-28; Jun 12-18; Jul 17-23; Jul 31-Aug 6; Aug 28-Sep 3; Sep 25-Oct 1; Oct 16-22;➡Oct 23-29; Nov 13-19; and then a spectacular five-issue run from post-Thanksgiving (Nov 27) to New Year's Eve. Here's a look at part of the Christmas issue.
1978: Feb 5-11; Feb 19-25; Mar 12-18; Apr 9-15; Apr 23-29; May 14-20;➡May 21-27;➡May 28-Jun 3; Jun 11-17;➡Jun 18-24;➡Jun 25-Jul 1; Jul 30-Aug 5;➡Aug 6-12; Sep 10-16;➡Sep 17-23; Nov 5-11; Nov 19-25;➡Nov 26-Dec 2 (d);➡Dec 3-9; Dec 17-23.
1979: Feb 11-17; Mar 18-24; Apr 29-May 5; Jun 10-16;➡Jun 17-23;➡Jun 24-30 (d); Oct 7-13; Dec 30-Jan 5, 1980.
1980: Feb 24-Mar 1; Jul 13-19; Aug 10-16;➡Aug 17-23;➡Aug 24-30; Dec 21-27 (d).
1981: May 24-30;➡May 31-Jun 6; Jul 26-Aug 1; Aug 23-29; Sep 13-19; Dec 20-26.
1982: Jun 27-Jul 3; Dec 12-18.
1983: A whopping seventeen issues: Jan 23-29;➡Jan 30-Feb 5;➡Feb 6-12, Feb 27-Mar 5;➡Mar 6-12,➡Mar 13-19, Apr 10-16; Apr 24-30; May 15-21;➡May 22-28; Jul 24-30;➡Jul 31-Aug 6; Oct 30-Nov 5;➡Nov 6-12;➡Nov 13-19; Nov 27-Dec 3; Dec 24-30.
1984: Mar 25-31; May 6-12;➡May 13-19; Dec 23-29.
1985: Only the Christmas issue, Dec 22-28.

Any requests to see a particular issue covered in a post are welcomed,
just let me know which one and why...

Oh, and if you happen to have any Newsday TV Books from this period that you're looking to get rid of, by all means leave a comment, we'll work something out!

D'wizzida Oz.

That's phonetic Long Islandese, my attempt to approximate what we marble-mouthed Nassau/Suffolk kiddies called The Wizard of Oz when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's. The dazzling 1939 fantasy flick showed up on television just once a year back then, at the onset of springtime or just a bit earlier. It was kind of a big deal, before home video and cable airings made it viewable whenever. I always found the prospect of watching it again thrilling (if a little daunting, as the flying henchmonkeys and the Wizard's giant projected head scared the shit out of me).

Using the Wikipedia page devoted to television broadcasts of the movie, I searched my collection of TV schedule ephemera, largely confined to the years 1972 to 1984, for listings and ads. The first airing to be found in my collection is the Wizard's sixth TV appearance, on CBS as before, Sunday, January 26th, 1964. There was no 1963 airing; the December broadcasts were shifted back a month in the wake of JFK's demise (and the ever-increasing yuletide competition may have been a factor as well).
*enlarge pics with a click*

The next evidence of Oz in my collection comes from April 8th, 1973. The Newsday TV Book featured a close-up with a doodle by one "M. Frem."

The next Newsday TV Book example I have is from the following year, the airing of Sunday, February 24th, 1974. I read that this showing was postponed (due to breaking news) and re-scheduled for March 10th, but I have the NTVB's for both dates and no changes are reflected or mentioned.

Now on to some TV Guide ads.

Strangely, there is no ad for the Easter Sunday showing of 3/30/75, the last on NBC before it returned to CBS. Here, however, is a neat Dunkin' Donuts ad that ties in with the broadcast (although it appears among the listings for Saturday). I have seen these inflatable Munchkins for sale online, in the original wrapping even. They are no longer 99¢, but a motivated buyer could possibly score one at a, shall we say, not-unreasonable price for someone with an appropriately warped sense of values.

I looked at the dimly-lighted photo of this ad probably a dozen times before noticing that the Munchkin Lady doll is watching along with the kids.

Here's that next year's CBS ad, Sunday March 14th, 1976.
Also kinda strange, because it does not tout the return.

Sunday, March 20th, 1977.

Next, the ad and listing for Easter Sunday, March 26th, 1978. I was surprised to see that this and '75 were the only holiday showings of my youth. I thought the association of Oz with Easter was more of a "thing." (There were airings that occurred on both my and my mother's birthdays, so that gave it an extra-special feel, too.) This airing was definitely an event, though, as it kicked off a week of nightly, star-studded broadcasts celebrating CBS' 50th anniversary.

I have one more Newsday TV Book page with a WoO close-up, this time moving to a Friday: March 23rd, 1979. (I don't have the TV guide for that date.) Check out that ad at bottom right. How cool would it have been to watch the “Chef of the Future” on the “TV of Tomorrow”?

Resuming TV Guide ads: Friday, March 7th, 1980.

Friday, February 27th, 1981. Did you dare defect that year, to witness the return of Herman Munster? I can't imagine that I did.

The following year saw a move to Saturday--March 27th, 1982.

Finally, back to Friday for the showing of March 18th, 1983.

I'm going to dig around my collection to see if I can unearth some other Oz-related fossils. I'll add them as I discover, so check back if you're so inclined. Right off the bat, I have this TVG ad for the animated Journey Back to Oz, as aired on New York City's WNEW 5 on December 9th, 1978. I can’t say I remember this Filmation production, but the history behind it is kind of interesting.